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    Can we lose our salvation?

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    Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by senteami on Fri May 15, 2009 3:09 pm

    the 3 last persons I asked lately told me we could lose our salvation. If this is so, then we have no guarantee of making it to heaven. Plus how can we tell the unsaved that they need to be saved and yet they might lose their salvation? Then they might tell you "what profits me to be saved if there is no guarantee for salvation?

    So I am confused, depressed, sad, SCARED because once God sent my spirit in hell and I know what hell is... Please help with scriptures!
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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by Guest on Fri May 15, 2009 3:55 pm

    Can the believer lose his salvation?
    This question often comes up in discussions among Christians and there is a healthy debate on whether or not it is possible to lose your salvation. The question and the answer are important because they can affect your relationship with God. For example, if someone believes that he can lose his salvation then he might fall into the error of trying to keep his salvation by what he does. This is a serious error (Gal. 3:1-3). On the other hand, if he believed he could not lose his salvation then, he might fall into the error of sinning willfully because he believes it can't be lost no matter how much he sins. This also is very wrong (Rom. 6:1-2,11-12). The proper understanding of salvation is that works play no part in it (Rom. 4:5), that it is a free gift (Rom. 6:23), and that it is received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9). Once we are saved we are to live a holy life (1 Thess. 4:7).

    Fortunately whether you believe you can or cannot lose your salvation does not affect your salvation. That is, your salvation is dependent upon accepting Jesus as Savior, trusting in His sin sacrifice, and looking to no one and nothing else. Your salvation isn't dependent upon whether or not you think it is possible to lose your salvation.

    The important point is that you have studied the Word of God and are convinced in your own mind of what you believe (Rom. 14:5). You are the one who has to answer to God (Rom. 3:19). You are the one who needs to study to show yourself approved (2 Tim. 2:15).

    There are on the surface good verses for both sides of the argument. There are verses that seem to suggest that it is possible to lose your salvation: 2 Pet. 2:1; Gal. 5:4; Heb. 10:26; 6:4-6; Ps. 69:28, and there are also verses that seem to say you cannot lose your salvation: John 10:27-28; Heb. 13:5; Matt. 7:21-23; 1 John 2:19; Rom. 8:38-39. But if there are verses used to support both sides, then is there a contradiction in the Word of God? Of course not. There can be no contradiction in the inspired Word of God, only in our uninspired misunderstanding.

    It is my opinion, and I stress opinion, that it is not possible to lose one's salvation. I base this on scriptures that seem to have a more "eternal" perspective on them. For example, on the day of judgment when some seek salvation based upon their works Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you" (Matt. 7:21-23). They were never known, that is, they were never saved although they appeared, from the human perspective, to be saved. Jesus says that His sheep will "never perish but have eternal life" (John 10:28). How can eternal life be eternal if it can be lost particularly when Jesus said that they will never perish. If they will never perish, then they can't lose their salvation. Also, Paul says that nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God (Rom. 8:38-39). I see these "divine perspective" type verses as giving us glimpses into the viewpoint of God. I see the other verses as being stated from a human perspective, that they appeared to be saved and then appeared to lose it (Gal. 5:4; Heb. 6:4-6). However, 1 John 2:19 says in dealing with antichrists, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us," (NASB). I see this verse saying two things: First, that if it appears that false teachers leave because they are not regenerated to begin with. In other words, if someone had salvation and then lost it, it was because they never were saved in the first place. Second, it says that if someone is saved, they will remain in the faith.

    Nevertheless, there are different positions on this issue. One position states that it is possible to lose your salvation, but only if you want to. In other words, having been set free from sin, the person is then able by an act of will to deny the Lord and desire not to be a part of Him any longer.

    Another position states that it is possible to lose your salvation if you sin too much. Then you need to go and confess your sin and get saved again. This has obvious problems because it could lead to someone trusting in his works and God's grace to be saved.

    Another position states that it is not possible at all to lose your salvation, that because Jesus has redeemed you and you are a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17) you cannot, then, turn your back on God. Since attaining salvation did not depend on anything you did, keeping it does not depend on anything you do, then also, losing it can't occur because of anything you do.

    Unfortunately, this topic has caused far too much friction in the church today. My hope is that people who disagree, can learn to live harmoniously with their eyes on Jesus.
    http://www.carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/can-believer-lose-his-salvation


    OK...

    I repeat this part...
    Fortunately whether you believe you can or cannot lose your salvation does not affect your salvation. That is, your salvation is dependent upon accepting Jesus as Savior, trusting in His sin sacrifice, and looking to no one and nothing else. Your salvation isn't dependent upon whether or not you think it is possible to lose your salvation.

    You are letting this go thorugh you heart, as if you need to ask if you are saved at all. Dont you know who you are? You are a child of the King, right! You are letting something like this nock you around. Dont let it. As long as Jesus is in his right place in your heart and you arent just sining because you think you are free to do so, you are ok!


    In a normal and healthy relastionship with Jesus, one isnt able to be lost, I just will not happen. We, yes fall, and sin, and then get back up and get over it. Repenting and moving on in our walk with Jesus is the key.

    Some try and rap their brains around this and both sides came be found in the word. For salvation and and for the change that their might be away to lose it. But I say, focus on Loving Jesus and this will be you point of being as far away from being losed as you can get! It just will not happen.

    I believe as well that that lose it are the one that are change completely from the inside out. Jesus isnt there Master, the call themselves by his name, and yet make a point not to live right. It is the heart that Jesus is after.

    He has yours sister, dont let this move you so easy!

    And, just incase you dont know, I am Laurel

    One that said I believe you can. But I dont know all the word, you have to look for the answers yourself. Just because others stated they think this is so, doesnt mean that it is, so one on one with Jesus find out what He says to your heart.
    I am not looking for everyone to agree with me. Many on here will agree with the other side, being the once saved always saved. That is ok with me. We are all after being love by Jesus and loving Jesus. The thing is as stated. Grace is free too all, but we have to daily die to ourselves and let Jesus be comepletely Lord.

    I pray that You gain the peace you need through all of this, and fine what G-d means by these scriptures, what is truth to G-d isnt always what man says it is! G-d with what he says!

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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by senteami on Fri May 15, 2009 4:54 pm

    Hi Ladyofvictory :-))
    Thanks (again!) I love you
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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by Guest on Fri May 15, 2009 6:20 pm

    The one big thing I have seen on other sites is brothers and sisters coming against one another over small parts of the scriptures. I am not for this, and would hate to thing that this might end up butting a division between us because i might see something a little diffrent then you. Like some of the rapture, I believe in the pre-tribe rapture. But really, there art those that are mean spirited over it. Really, Even if I didnt believe in the rapture, doesnt that change what the Lord has set to happen. No...and if I love the lord and dont believe that because I wasnt at the point of that kind of understanding, that wouldnt change it from happening would if. We are called in believe on his, the rest is up to him for us to get an understanding on, yet we are to be humble, and loving towords each other in these things.

    I love you sister, and wouldnt push things I see over the salvation that comes through Jesus. He calls us to believe, and trust in him. I know it is human to make more difficult of things G-d perfact plain because is is too easy...we didnt have to work for it at all! If is totaly free!

    I love you, and wish the best for you, sister.

    Hugs!

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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by senteami on Sat May 16, 2009 10:02 am

    Thanks Lady of Victory, I love you too! I love you
    Yes I must keep on staying as close to Him as possible, trusting Him and loving Him as He should be loved.

    Thanks
    Senteami sunny I love you I love you
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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by senteami on Sat May 16, 2009 10:10 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2AQ6Jhm7LE
    John Schlitt "Only Men" I love you
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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by Susan on Sat May 16, 2009 11:02 am

    Senteami, I feel that those who believe we can loose our salvation, are still living under the LAW, and also feel that they must perform sacrifices, in order to maintain their SALVATION. Ladyofvictory has done a great job explaining this. I rest my belief upon knowing that JESUS said: "IT IS FINISHIED" upon the cross. We know that HE is the ONLY ONE, who could SAVE us, from our sins. HE is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our FAITH...

    Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

    JESUS became our HIGH PRIEST. Take some time, and read the BOOK of HEBREWS. I feel that this book, will lay to rest any fears that you may have, concerning SALVATION.

    Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    Those who believe that they can loose their SALVATION, may not be SAVED at all. When I hear these things, I often ask about their own SALVATION experience and ask for their TESTIMONY. The BIBLE tells us, we are known by our FRUIT. But FRUIT will not be produced, on works alone. FAITH plays an important part.

    Please read Matthew 7:

    Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    In closing, I leave you with these comforting words:

    Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
    Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


    (((((((((((((((((((((((SENTEAMI))))))))))))))))))))


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    deleted my own post, done by hubby

    Post by Guest on Sat May 16, 2009 5:07 pm

    I have removed what I have posted here. First, i want and will say sorry to My Dear friend Anna, if what I stated at all moved her faith so much to cause her to struggle. I have tried my best to explain my best about these ideas. I do not believe for one moment that My husband isn't G-D's because he see things differently! Fact is it is only this point that, that he sees differently then others. The rest are the same.

    I will stated, I didn't see my husbands posting his ideas as debating, and as for debate rules here...."This is a NO DEBATE forum. It is possible to disagree about a subject under discussion without insulting or attacking each other personally. Respect each other. Users that cannot respect others will be banned."
    I see that say that someone that sees as was posted above, that in this way you don't think they are saved in the first place. That is just wrong. He was just showing a disagreement, respectfully, and not attacking others that may see things differently. I find others saying they aren't saved if they don't see things a 100% the way you do, that must mean they aren't saved. I have defended others against this treatment.

    This bothers me greatly. It is very insulting to claim anyone that claims Jesus as savior isn't saved at all. My husband is. I have talked many times over the victories I see in him. So I find Pain in what was said.

    Once again, I am sorry Anna!


    Respectfully, I leave, asking for my account here to be removed! I dint want to be hear any longer. I think it is better. I like the idea of my being free to post things, and know that it is safe to give my points. Without claims from others that I am not saved, nor my hubby!


    Last edited by ladyofvictory on Sun May 17, 2009 9:30 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : debating rules!)

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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by Susan on Sun May 17, 2009 2:26 pm

    MODERATION NOTE:

    First off, this is a NO DEBATE forum. Every doctrine, must be PROOVED, through the STUDY of the WORD of GOD.



    Ladyofvictory, your husband, who is not a member of this forum said this:

    What is a deposit? A deposit is something you give so that something will be held for you when you return later. But the transaction is NOT YET COMPLETE. Yes, Jesus did say on the cross that "it is finished", but He was saying that the payment for our sins was finished, NOT that all of creation was now saved for all time.

    This statement is only TRUE for unbelievers. You have to accept the GIFT, to be a partaker of the GIFT. Once you accept the GIFT, do you return it?

    Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    He went on to say:

    The problem comes when people are "playing" Christian. There are plenty of people who go to church because it is something they are supposed to do. They are religious but have no real relationship with God. This is why in the same Matt chapter 7 that Susan quoted, just in the very next verse where she left off (you should have kept reading) Matthew says;21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

    Many times, over the years, I said that not everyone who claims to be CHRISTIAN is a Christian. We are still living in the earthly vessel that the LORD has PROVIDED us, and this vessel, will continue to sin, until we are PERFECTED in HIM. It is a process known as JUSTIFICATION through SANCTIFICATION, that takes place, from the moment we accept the LORD as our SAVIOR. According to the WORD, if we loose our REDEMPTION, then it is forever lost.

    Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


    In doing so, one finds that CHRIST must be SACRIFICED again, which goes against what the WORD of GOD says.

    My expeirence, in my daily walk, is that if I sin, I am immediately to respond by repenting my sin. By doing so, my SALVATION, has not been jeapordized, but strengthened, through CHRIST, who STRENGTHENS me. I am reminded that I have sinned, through the HOLY SPIRIT ANNOINTING. Lest I should fall, into diverse temptations, the HOLY SPIRIT gently guides me back onto the NARROW PATH, that leads to the MASTER'S THRONE. If one believes that they can loose their SALVATION, they then become dependent upon themselves, and not the HOLY SPIRIT, for guidance. Those that willfully sin, fall short of this understanding of the WORD. To willfully sin, means that you are willing to take SALVATION for granted.

    1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. 13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. 14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

    MODERATION NOTE:


    The BIBLE tells us to STUDY to SHEW ourselves approved. This is what this forum ministry is all about. It is a teaching and learning tool for all who come here. It is for the EDIFICATION of OUR LORD and SAVIOR, who gives us, ETERNAL LIFE. There is nothing in ourselves, that can offer this GIFT. It is only given by ACCEPTING JESUS, as our LORD and SAVIOUR. Once you have accepted HIS ETERNAL GIFT, then HE sends a COMFORTER, known as the HOLY SPIRIT. The HOLY SPIRIT gives us comfort, guides and directs us, and shares the WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING of HIS WORD. May all who come here, find JESUS wating for them.

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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by Susan on Tue May 19, 2009 4:10 pm

    ladyofvictory wrote:I have removed what I have posted here. First, i want and will say sorry to My Dear friend Anna, if what I stated at all moved her faith so much to cause her to struggle. I have tried my best to explain my best about these ideas. I do not believe for one moment that My husband isn't G-D's because he see things differently! Fact is it is only this point that, that he sees differently then others. The rest are the same.

    I will stated, I didn't see my husbands posting his ideas as debating, and as for debate rules here...."This is a NO DEBATE forum. It is possible to disagree about a subject under discussion without insulting or attacking each other personally. Respect each other. Users that cannot respect others will be banned."
    I see that say that someone that sees as was posted above, that in this way you don't think they are saved in the first place. That is just wrong. He was just showing a disagreement, respectfully, and not attacking others that may see things differently. I find others saying they aren't saved if they don't see things a 100% the way you do, that must mean they aren't saved. I have defended others against this treatment.

    This bothers me greatly. It is very insulting to claim anyone that claims Jesus as savior isn't saved at all. My husband is. I have talked many times over the victories I see in him. So I find Pain in what was said.

    Once again, I am sorry Anna!


    Respectfully, I leave, asking for my account here to be removed! I dint want to be hear any longer. I think it is better. I like the idea of my being free to post things, and know that it is safe to give my points. Without claims from others that I am not saved, nor my hubby!
    Ladyofvictory,

    First off, no one here has claimed that you or your hubby is unsaved. The moderation statement was placed, because it is wrong, to allow your husband or anyone else for that matter, post under your user name. It violates a trusted priviledge. I will remove your account, only after you talk with me, concerning this. In the post, your husband was accusing me, of something that is simply not true. My post was to correct this, nothing more.

    My suggestion is that if anyone doubts their SALVATION, they should seek the counsel of their pastor, read and study the WORD and pray about it.

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    Re: Can we lose our salvation?

    Post by Susan on Fri May 22, 2009 10:16 am

    This was in me email, daily devotion from Love Worth Finding Ministries. Dr Adrian Rogers, was a well respected and loved, Pastor. May this bless your hearts today:

    May 22

    BIBLE MEDITATION:
    “Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
    John 3:7

    DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT:
    Have you ever known anyone who was physically born twice? Have you ever known someone who was spiritually born twice? Nowhere in the Bible will you find a passage that describes anyone being saved twice. Once you come into the family, you’re in the family. Now there were times when I disappointed my parents. There were times when my father had to chastise me, but I am a Rogers. I will be a Rogers for all eternity. It’s the same way with your spiritual life. When you are born into the family of God, your name is written in the Lamb’s book of life. It is fixed. It is done.

    ACTION POINT:
    Do you know a brother or sister in Christ who is doubting his/her salvation? Encourage him/her with this Good News today.

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